Follow-up; 1) this has been the most read issue of THE LEFT LANE since we started in JAN. 2024 and plus 25 new subs; could do with some more paid subs to pay the editorial costs;
There is currently so many votes lost between the Corbyn voters of around 2015-2019, which do not align with Starmer's Labour. There's potential here for a digitally-native, grassroots revival: if the movement prioritises youth inclusion, climate urgency, and decentralised organising.
I have not been part of building a new party or a new movement (the Long March I had hoped for 50 years ago didn't happen), nonetheless, I'll weigh in on this (also, I'm from Canada, not the UK). You can't be a "centrist social democrat" and a socialist at the same time, so the party will be one or the other. A "left social democrat" might preach some socialist values but essentially, social democrats believe in capitalist charity while socialists believe in empowerment (at least in Canada). That's not to say a centrist social democratic party might not be an improvement over what Labour has become (a very low bar). As for leadership, there is, it seems to me, an easy way to win over all sides on this one. Corbyn is the founding leader, he immediately announces a convention at which the leadership going forward will be elected, and, hopefully, some young leftists come forward to take the party into the necessary building stage and the next elections, maybe even moving it to the left, even to socialism, along the way. The UK's version of the Long March maybe?
any politician who asks that these important questions be debated behind closed doors in order to protect their career is exactly the sort of person we don't want in the leadership of our new party. Thousands of activists who give their time freely to the movement are more important that elected careerists.
BUT: make it clear to the Hon. Corbyn + his circle that your support is a loan, not a gift; you will sign no pledges, nor be bound by any handcuffing documents or obligation whatsoever.
A loose coalition is exactly what the left needs, bc so many specific interests are represented there. The time to ensure the looseness, + thus everyone's agency, is at the beginning; + woe betide anyone who seeks to go back on that ethic.
The numbers +muscle you can bring in the very dawn of this project will be your leverage to make it go the way *you* want, not how you will be told it will.
That'd be nice. But if someone was gonna do it, they'd have done it already. If Corbyn et al. are setting up something potentially worthwhile, they need you more than you need them. They may bring some mystical (to me) "credibility factor" with them; but without you they're just gonna lose more deposits than the Monster Raving Loony Party.
Just like you can make this latest effort die on the vine, should you choose; you can pick it up and carry it where you want it to go. All you need is your numerical strength, + your agency. Then tell JC and his staff that to access the first one, they must honor the second. Or they get neither.
Shaggy: 1) I can assure you of one thing: THE LEFT LANE has very little power; 2) I have offered to interview Collective many times; they always refuse. 3) Of course we can all learn how to do politics better. For oner thing, you have to study left history. Is Collective interested: FROM THE ARTICLE "Moreover, has it learned from the serious mistakes made by past left-of-Labour parties such as the Socialist Labour Party (headed by Scargill), the Scottish Socialist Party (Sheridan) and Respect (Gallaway)? When Fitzpatrick was asked about this issue last week at a Zoom webinar, she ducked the question and said “the time is very different” today. Next question." That's pathetic in my view.
Well, 1) You probably don't have "power" at this moment, but you can build strength; having + using the voice you've got here is a damn good start.
2) Sooner or later, more likely sooner, those folks who won't talk to you now are gonna find themselves in need of other "voices" than their own to carry their efforts past the "can fit in a snug" stage. That need will be inelastic + dire on their end, as it's the most crucial moment for any political endeavor - the first scale-up. If you've done your outreach + relationship building, they flatly *must* come to you. And then you have "power".
3) I'm not so concerned about folks doing politics "better" so much as getting them to actually remember how they were done in times before this; + seeing inter- + even intra-factional conflict as not only unavoidable but healthy, when conducted ethically + transparently. Those who cluck their tongues at that want a cult, not a party; + we both have a surfeit of cults in our national polities, to no good end. Indeed, the inevitable crash of those cults will come; + from their rubble a demand for different styles of doing politics will arise.
The left can have that; we can be first to it, even, in our respective polities. At the least, beginning to go there is better than the void we're condemned to now.
Considering Corbyn himself is very well aware of his own age (And mortality, considering the numbers of death threats he received while leader of Labour); I'd consider it unlikely he's going to keep this as a 'personal' project.
And the absolute LAST thing they want is to be infiltrated by zionazis/zionazi agents who will deliberately plague the party with the same shit that happened to Labour... nuff said.
I for one will be joining, and trying to get to the meetings. I wonder if MI5 will once again turn up to warn me against political activism? FUCK EM.
It's hope. At long last, we have some hope. Surely it isn't hopium?
Nothing in this life is perfect, and I very much doubt this will be too. But by good goddamn, we need this like we need NATO disbanding, worker-ownership, national assets owned nationally, and investment into the PEOPLE.
Not new social antagonisms like ending the 50yr consensus on abortion, and corporate-managed legal euthanasia, the Death March of the disabled, and the starvation of 30% of the population. Let alone Gaza and the plight of the Palestinians, where the British Military are neck deep in innocent blood - AGAIN.
By damn this is good news. He got off his arse at last. <3
It doesn't sound like it to me, Alan, I'd agree with what you wrote - and I'd also agree that Dutch model sounds CONSIDERABLY better.
At the same time, we are literally in the belly of the deep beast here, whereas the Netherlands are not. Pompous Pompeo didn't make direct threats towards Dutch leaders, just the UK, and his successors are unlikely to be any better or more-democratic people. Infiltrations and assassinations are not a negligible threat here, are they?
A starving person may not have the luxury of waiting for a 5 course banquet, and may be grateful just for some fish n chips (In traditional newspaper).
I might change my tune upon encountering a new exclusivist in-group (It gets tediously common in UK politics), but right now I'm not waiting on perfection.
All - or most - of those people have proven their worth, and stood their ground in the face of extreme repression and direct threats.
Fine. Lets see where it goes.
Frankly, it would be hard to be as bad as ALL of the other Parties, right now.
This is nothing more than yet another Corbyn-inspired false dawn. Corbyn failed to build his movement of 2015-20 in the working class and he will fail to do so again.
The only political party that need worry themselves with this ‘development’ will be the Green Party, given the number of late-stage Corbynistas that have ended up there.
In fairness, Corbyn did win those elections, and we all know the World, let alone the UK, would have been a VERY different place, had the Establishment not rigged the elections and the results.
The "Greens" will indeed be panicking, and rightly so. They've turned into an Identity-politics cult, full of careerists and kicking out anyone who questions the purity of their ideology. Right now I wouldn't trust them to even oppose Heathrow expansion, if the leadership (And this 'Zack' will be even worse) saw an opportunity for themselves.
But "Labour" will also be having kittens. There are 3 Tory parties to 'choose' between, Tories, pretend-reluctant Tories, and ultra-Tories (F'Rage), and they are all fighting for the same 30% of votes.
If this new Party-lite can manage to win councillor seats in several boroughs, that will energise the activists to know they can take on the big parties in a GE.
Once it's up and running, we'll see the direction it takes.
We need a new mass socialist party now, not whatever this Arise centrist / soft left stuff is.
What a let down & it has not even begun yet.
Holly: I could not agree more. But I had the info and thought it was a story that needed doing. THE STRUGLE CONTINUES. Alan
Follow-up; 1) this has been the most read issue of THE LEFT LANE since we started in JAN. 2024 and plus 25 new subs; could do with some more paid subs to pay the editorial costs;
2) here are two follows in past 18 hours:
a) https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1544/privileged-information-leaks/ ;
b) https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/could-new-left-party-change-political-weather
Ye gods we need something! ✌️❤️✊️
There is currently so many votes lost between the Corbyn voters of around 2015-2019, which do not align with Starmer's Labour. There's potential here for a digitally-native, grassroots revival: if the movement prioritises youth inclusion, climate urgency, and decentralised organising.
I have not been part of building a new party or a new movement (the Long March I had hoped for 50 years ago didn't happen), nonetheless, I'll weigh in on this (also, I'm from Canada, not the UK). You can't be a "centrist social democrat" and a socialist at the same time, so the party will be one or the other. A "left social democrat" might preach some socialist values but essentially, social democrats believe in capitalist charity while socialists believe in empowerment (at least in Canada). That's not to say a centrist social democratic party might not be an improvement over what Labour has become (a very low bar). As for leadership, there is, it seems to me, an easy way to win over all sides on this one. Corbyn is the founding leader, he immediately announces a convention at which the leadership going forward will be elected, and, hopefully, some young leftists come forward to take the party into the necessary building stage and the next elections, maybe even moving it to the left, even to socialism, along the way. The UK's version of the Long March maybe?
any politician who asks that these important questions be debated behind closed doors in order to protect their career is exactly the sort of person we don't want in the leadership of our new party. Thousands of activists who give their time freely to the movement are more important that elected careerists.
Could not agree more Phil.
I know no one likes advice, but I have some:
Gather up all the muscle you've got, and jump in.
BUT: make it clear to the Hon. Corbyn + his circle that your support is a loan, not a gift; you will sign no pledges, nor be bound by any handcuffing documents or obligation whatsoever.
A loose coalition is exactly what the left needs, bc so many specific interests are represented there. The time to ensure the looseness, + thus everyone's agency, is at the beginning; + woe betide anyone who seeks to go back on that ethic.
The numbers +muscle you can bring in the very dawn of this project will be your leverage to make it go the way *you* want, not how you will be told it will.
My brief "advice" Shaggy: Have a good process to set up a new party.
That'd be nice. But if someone was gonna do it, they'd have done it already. If Corbyn et al. are setting up something potentially worthwhile, they need you more than you need them. They may bring some mystical (to me) "credibility factor" with them; but without you they're just gonna lose more deposits than the Monster Raving Loony Party.
Just like you can make this latest effort die on the vine, should you choose; you can pick it up and carry it where you want it to go. All you need is your numerical strength, + your agency. Then tell JC and his staff that to access the first one, they must honor the second. Or they get neither.
Shaggy: 1) I can assure you of one thing: THE LEFT LANE has very little power; 2) I have offered to interview Collective many times; they always refuse. 3) Of course we can all learn how to do politics better. For oner thing, you have to study left history. Is Collective interested: FROM THE ARTICLE "Moreover, has it learned from the serious mistakes made by past left-of-Labour parties such as the Socialist Labour Party (headed by Scargill), the Scottish Socialist Party (Sheridan) and Respect (Gallaway)? When Fitzpatrick was asked about this issue last week at a Zoom webinar, she ducked the question and said “the time is very different” today. Next question." That's pathetic in my view.
Well, 1) You probably don't have "power" at this moment, but you can build strength; having + using the voice you've got here is a damn good start.
2) Sooner or later, more likely sooner, those folks who won't talk to you now are gonna find themselves in need of other "voices" than their own to carry their efforts past the "can fit in a snug" stage. That need will be inelastic + dire on their end, as it's the most crucial moment for any political endeavor - the first scale-up. If you've done your outreach + relationship building, they flatly *must* come to you. And then you have "power".
3) I'm not so concerned about folks doing politics "better" so much as getting them to actually remember how they were done in times before this; + seeing inter- + even intra-factional conflict as not only unavoidable but healthy, when conducted ethically + transparently. Those who cluck their tongues at that want a cult, not a party; + we both have a surfeit of cults in our national polities, to no good end. Indeed, the inevitable crash of those cults will come; + from their rubble a demand for different styles of doing politics will arise.
The left can have that; we can be first to it, even, in our respective polities. At the least, beginning to go there is better than the void we're condemned to now.
It's a beginning.
Considering Corbyn himself is very well aware of his own age (And mortality, considering the numbers of death threats he received while leader of Labour); I'd consider it unlikely he's going to keep this as a 'personal' project.
And the absolute LAST thing they want is to be infiltrated by zionazis/zionazi agents who will deliberately plague the party with the same shit that happened to Labour... nuff said.
I for one will be joining, and trying to get to the meetings. I wonder if MI5 will once again turn up to warn me against political activism? FUCK EM.
It's hope. At long last, we have some hope. Surely it isn't hopium?
Nothing in this life is perfect, and I very much doubt this will be too. But by good goddamn, we need this like we need NATO disbanding, worker-ownership, national assets owned nationally, and investment into the PEOPLE.
Not new social antagonisms like ending the 50yr consensus on abortion, and corporate-managed legal euthanasia, the Death March of the disabled, and the starvation of 30% of the population. Let alone Gaza and the plight of the Palestinians, where the British Military are neck deep in innocent blood - AGAIN.
By damn this is good news. He got off his arse at last. <3
Gnuneo - is it being set up in a good way? Alan
It doesn't sound like it to me, Alan, I'd agree with what you wrote - and I'd also agree that Dutch model sounds CONSIDERABLY better.
At the same time, we are literally in the belly of the deep beast here, whereas the Netherlands are not. Pompous Pompeo didn't make direct threats towards Dutch leaders, just the UK, and his successors are unlikely to be any better or more-democratic people. Infiltrations and assassinations are not a negligible threat here, are they?
A starving person may not have the luxury of waiting for a 5 course banquet, and may be grateful just for some fish n chips (In traditional newspaper).
I might change my tune upon encountering a new exclusivist in-group (It gets tediously common in UK politics), but right now I'm not waiting on perfection.
All - or most - of those people have proven their worth, and stood their ground in the face of extreme repression and direct threats.
Fine. Lets see where it goes.
Frankly, it would be hard to be as bad as ALL of the other Parties, right now.
Not saying it couldn't get there though... :(
This is nothing more than yet another Corbyn-inspired false dawn. Corbyn failed to build his movement of 2015-20 in the working class and he will fail to do so again.
The only political party that need worry themselves with this ‘development’ will be the Green Party, given the number of late-stage Corbynistas that have ended up there.
In fairness, Corbyn did win those elections, and we all know the World, let alone the UK, would have been a VERY different place, had the Establishment not rigged the elections and the results.
The "Greens" will indeed be panicking, and rightly so. They've turned into an Identity-politics cult, full of careerists and kicking out anyone who questions the purity of their ideology. Right now I wouldn't trust them to even oppose Heathrow expansion, if the leadership (And this 'Zack' will be even worse) saw an opportunity for themselves.
But "Labour" will also be having kittens. There are 3 Tory parties to 'choose' between, Tories, pretend-reluctant Tories, and ultra-Tories (F'Rage), and they are all fighting for the same 30% of votes.
If this new Party-lite can manage to win councillor seats in several boroughs, that will energise the activists to know they can take on the big parties in a GE.
Once it's up and running, we'll see the direction it takes.
"A week in politics is a..."