Alan thank you for a superb summary of what sounds like the usual suspects manipulating the whole show. As you say there was some serious discussion but it is hard not to be a bit pessimistic but the situation is indeed dire
Sounds like the energy-draining 'conferences' of the Greens in recent years.
One could almost wonder how many of these groups are run by establishment infiltrators.
I suspect one of the reasons Corbyn doesn't want a new Party, is that he would absolutely be expected to lead it. And he barely survived leading Labour, getting out just before the assassins bullet(s), no doubt.
The leaders of any new, and highly successful Party, can probably expect to be spending some time in British jails, tbh. Like Romania's Georgescue.
These are not happy times. Liberal democracy is dying, if it's not dead already. (See threats on Corbyn, fx)
Icke was possibly only flagging up a natural dislike/suspicion of oligarchy and greedy power elites, he wouldn’t have been able to even conceptualise Varoufakis’ Cloud Capital, which could be the game changer any shape-shifting reptilian humanoid would be proud of.
Even Gibson in the 70s couldn't imagine that. Like no-one could conceptualise all the financial 'gimmicks' of the 90s and 00s. Every new step opens new possibilities for foolishness.
But the underlying realities of wealth/class/income remain the same.
Not the same - cloud capital is a bit different - it has built in its own reproductive system and amasses exorbitant wealth exponentially (think AI) and humanity has become its willing cloud serfs.
Fx, Corbyn wanted to build a nationally-owned Amazon alternative. The wealth-income generated might even offset the economic costs to losing half the commercial sector and jobs therein.
The UK could also have built its own secure/encrypted social media platform, and lawd alone knows there is demand for one that is not a CIA datamine.
I didn't read enough of Technofeudalism to know if this was Varoufakis' solution/suggestion.
I've never owned one, don't intend to if I can avoid it.
Saw that one coming a mile off, lol.
Plus, I was already addicted to social media by 2001 - early politics forums - saw how some members begged the mods to "Temporarily ban them" so they could actually do their uni exams. Never quite reached that level myself, but knew I bordered it. Was TOO EASY to go from writing an essay to losing several enjoyable hours arguing.
The idea of carrying around 24/7 the means to do that was.... not enticing (It was, but the dangers were also apparent).
So I'm one of those people who watch other people stuck with their noses into the phone when travelling, lol.
Every year that passes reinforces that was the right choice.
Enough social media engineers have come out and said they'd never allow their kids, and often themselves, to own one. There's a truism from my younger days that applies - "Never buy from a dealer that doesn't use their product themselves".
More and more I admire the Jeh Witn's for banning TV, haven't watched that in years either.
Hi Gnuneo where did you get your name?The unrelenting energy of the oligarchy/establishment to undermine progressive organising is impressive. Brainwashing is probably too strong the word but it’s worked to undermine the existing ‘democratic’ systems. Here we are but with a large proportion of people having lost faith in political leadership and primed probably for a STRONG leader to come in.
<< hangs head in hands >>
A refresh of democracy is long overdue but the paradigm shift required probably needs a collapse of the present economic systems too.
I’m currently reading Technofeudalism and quite like Yanis’ take on where we are.
It just kind of popped up around 2000, when I was playing with online names. It fit in so many ways, and it was unique, it kinda felt like the name chose me, lol.
Once upon a time, in the early days of the Net, a search on it would bring up millions of hits, but I annoyed too many people, with too much power, and it's gradually been invisibled.
Unfortunately, as Gaddafi found, you yourself never get off the 'shit list' once you're on it.
Got halfway through Technofeudalism myself, didn't find a lot new in it - for me - but glad he's getting the ideas to a wider audience. I was calling Thatcherism neo-feudalism 20+ years ago. Took a lot of flack from it from centrists and the like.
Feel quite vindicated on that now, lmao.
In all fairness, Icke got there first and well before me, but I never fell for the 'reptilian shapeshifting alien' nonsense, so... ;)
Don't know where we go from here, quite like that dutch model Alan mentioned a few months back, but anyone who sticks their head today above the political parapet is going to get it blown off, with maximum prejudice.
The Transatlantic Zionist cabal are quite, quite ruthless.
Lol, I have nothing to do with Icke, just watched a couple of his early, non-Alien BS shows yonks years back. Though I know someone who knows him personally.
Just meant that Icke fingered the "Technofeudal dictatorship" angle back in the 70s. Actually, there was a lot of that level of insight back then, I recall reading a couple of 70s books on the dangers in the 80s from the library. Fortunately I'd never like Star Drek, so was more amenable to the notion that technology could be dangerous.
It was economics that cemented that though, realised the Thatcherite 'centralisation of wealth' could only go in one direction, and that opposite to the liberal notions of Adam Smith, where capitalism would evolve into worker-ownership and a liberal democracy of an empowered middle class.
Living in Denmark for a few years put the arch keystone in there.
I think the Continent has some different formulations, different definitions of certain word-concepts, that enables them to think more clearly about such matters. The Anglo education/media world has been carefully fashioned to make such thoughts more difficult.
The establishment wont stand for a Left Leaning party after all their concentrated efforts to rid the country of anyone on the left. Starting one will probably result in the leaders being arrested for using the wrong word at some point.
Well, what a depressing state of affairs. I see it's the usual suspects running things (not), the SWP and its splinters, I didn't even know about the conference. Would I have gone? I doubt it. I attended the founding conference of RESPECT, all those years ago and what did I find? I found the SWP (again) lording it over things and cooking the agenda. I left in disgust. Yes, capitalism is in crisis, that's why it's turning to Fascism (again) but this time around it has no opposition at all! So we're even worse off now than my folks were in the 1930s! My dad and his brothers fought the Fascists in Cable Street, took part in the national unemployed movement, fought Franco in Spain but this time....
There's an unspoken alternative which is for the left to take over an existing political party via mass membership, supporting each other to take office especially in the relevant governing bodies, and promote anti-capitalist policies. Does anyone have the guts and the will to do it? NB This is an idea, and critical analysis is welcome, abuse and negativity is not.
The problem with that is those who are in the existing hierarchy of the targeted party are then incentivized to build procedural and financial defenses against such a "takeover". And they'd be right to.
More importantly, though, it would inevitably mean a drawn-out battle to accomplish; involving possibly years of delay when the left cannot afford to waste, in time or energy.
Take over? Isn’t that an ancient Trotskyist tactic called entryism. You join an existing party and take it over by getting into positions of power and changing the party's programme. It didn't work then and it won't work now.
What the hell is Greta Thunberg doing here? A creature of the corporates, supporter of Zionist genocide! You ask why the situation is dire? Well including Thunberg says it all!
Perhaps you should read the article before making that judgement; and also peruse Corbyn's manifesto.
There are many varieties of 'capitalist' systems, just as there are of 'socialist' systems, and sometimes they are not very far apart, and sometimes they mingle.
Both the US, UK & China can all be called "Capitalist economies"; but one of them has decreased poverty sharply, while growing rapidly, and the other two have increased poverty sharply. Perhaps the wise might look at the different strategies employed.
Read the article and familiar with Corbyn's manifesto having been Chair of Bristol Labour during the election campaign. China has massively increased inequality since the 1980s. Recently reduced it slightly but still more unequal than the UK and most European countries which haven't become more unequal over the same period. China isn't as shit as the US but that really is a very low bar. If you must big up China (why?) it helps not to talk bollocks.
Yes but that's China, we're here in the UK, or hadn't you noticed? And even China has had to compromise just to survive the Empire's onslaught. And frankly, we had a kind of China here, following WWII and the welfare state, nationalised industries, the NHS. It lasted 30 years before the Barons decided to take back what belonged to them for centuries and Labour helped them repossess it all.
Economics doesn't work differently in different regions. There is a good reason Corbyn and McDonald got a standing ovation at the CBI. Sadly, that was forgotten by election time. Bet there's a lot of BloJo voting industrialists who feel like complete mugs now.
Labour helped, but Thatcher started that ball rolling.
Alan thank you for a superb summary of what sounds like the usual suspects manipulating the whole show. As you say there was some serious discussion but it is hard not to be a bit pessimistic but the situation is indeed dire
Many thanks Larry. Still distributing TLL manually on Facebook. Back later.
Sounds like the energy-draining 'conferences' of the Greens in recent years.
One could almost wonder how many of these groups are run by establishment infiltrators.
I suspect one of the reasons Corbyn doesn't want a new Party, is that he would absolutely be expected to lead it. And he barely survived leading Labour, getting out just before the assassins bullet(s), no doubt.
The leaders of any new, and highly successful Party, can probably expect to be spending some time in British jails, tbh. Like Romania's Georgescue.
These are not happy times. Liberal democracy is dying, if it's not dead already. (See threats on Corbyn, fx)
Icke was possibly only flagging up a natural dislike/suspicion of oligarchy and greedy power elites, he wouldn’t have been able to even conceptualise Varoufakis’ Cloud Capital, which could be the game changer any shape-shifting reptilian humanoid would be proud of.
Even Gibson in the 70s couldn't imagine that. Like no-one could conceptualise all the financial 'gimmicks' of the 90s and 00s. Every new step opens new possibilities for foolishness.
But the underlying realities of wealth/class/income remain the same.
Not the same - cloud capital is a bit different - it has built in its own reproductive system and amasses exorbitant wealth exponentially (think AI) and humanity has become its willing cloud serfs.
But 'cloud capital' could also be owned socially.
Fx, Corbyn wanted to build a nationally-owned Amazon alternative. The wealth-income generated might even offset the economic costs to losing half the commercial sector and jobs therein.
The UK could also have built its own secure/encrypted social media platform, and lawd alone knows there is demand for one that is not a CIA datamine.
I didn't read enough of Technofeudalism to know if this was Varoufakis' solution/suggestion.
I mean, no one even saw the smart phone coming which has changed behaviours and impacted the way reality is viewed in billions of minds😨
I've never owned one, don't intend to if I can avoid it.
Saw that one coming a mile off, lol.
Plus, I was already addicted to social media by 2001 - early politics forums - saw how some members begged the mods to "Temporarily ban them" so they could actually do their uni exams. Never quite reached that level myself, but knew I bordered it. Was TOO EASY to go from writing an essay to losing several enjoyable hours arguing.
The idea of carrying around 24/7 the means to do that was.... not enticing (It was, but the dangers were also apparent).
So I'm one of those people who watch other people stuck with their noses into the phone when travelling, lol.
Every year that passes reinforces that was the right choice.
Enough social media engineers have come out and said they'd never allow their kids, and often themselves, to own one. There's a truism from my younger days that applies - "Never buy from a dealer that doesn't use their product themselves".
More and more I admire the Jeh Witn's for banning TV, haven't watched that in years either.
I haven’t finished the book yet but it doesn’t feel like he’s offering any alternatives so far - will let you know ;-)
Hi Gnuneo where did you get your name?The unrelenting energy of the oligarchy/establishment to undermine progressive organising is impressive. Brainwashing is probably too strong the word but it’s worked to undermine the existing ‘democratic’ systems. Here we are but with a large proportion of people having lost faith in political leadership and primed probably for a STRONG leader to come in.
<< hangs head in hands >>
A refresh of democracy is long overdue but the paradigm shift required probably needs a collapse of the present economic systems too.
I’m currently reading Technofeudalism and quite like Yanis’ take on where we are.
It just kind of popped up around 2000, when I was playing with online names. It fit in so many ways, and it was unique, it kinda felt like the name chose me, lol.
Once upon a time, in the early days of the Net, a search on it would bring up millions of hits, but I annoyed too many people, with too much power, and it's gradually been invisibled.
Unfortunately, as Gaddafi found, you yourself never get off the 'shit list' once you're on it.
Got halfway through Technofeudalism myself, didn't find a lot new in it - for me - but glad he's getting the ideas to a wider audience. I was calling Thatcherism neo-feudalism 20+ years ago. Took a lot of flack from it from centrists and the like.
Feel quite vindicated on that now, lmao.
In all fairness, Icke got there first and well before me, but I never fell for the 'reptilian shapeshifting alien' nonsense, so... ;)
Don't know where we go from here, quite like that dutch model Alan mentioned a few months back, but anyone who sticks their head today above the political parapet is going to get it blown off, with maximum prejudice.
The Transatlantic Zionist cabal are quite, quite ruthless.
Oh, may I just ask where it was that you and Icke got to?
Lol, I have nothing to do with Icke, just watched a couple of his early, non-Alien BS shows yonks years back. Though I know someone who knows him personally.
Just meant that Icke fingered the "Technofeudal dictatorship" angle back in the 70s. Actually, there was a lot of that level of insight back then, I recall reading a couple of 70s books on the dangers in the 80s from the library. Fortunately I'd never like Star Drek, so was more amenable to the notion that technology could be dangerous.
It was economics that cemented that though, realised the Thatcherite 'centralisation of wealth' could only go in one direction, and that opposite to the liberal notions of Adam Smith, where capitalism would evolve into worker-ownership and a liberal democracy of an empowered middle class.
Living in Denmark for a few years put the arch keystone in there.
I think the Continent has some different formulations, different definitions of certain word-concepts, that enables them to think more clearly about such matters. The Anglo education/media world has been carefully fashioned to make such thoughts more difficult.
Coincidentally, I'm sure.
Who’s going to lead the people back to sanity as it’s like you say, probably a death sentence.
So is that it then, have the evil fekkers won?
“Horror is the natural reaction to the last 5,000 years of history.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
I don't have answers.
There was a smaller event involving John McDonnell on the same day which seemed to be mostly people in the orbit of the Morning Star.
https://liam-record.com/2025/03/31/arise-socialism-or-barbarism-conference/
The establishment wont stand for a Left Leaning party after all their concentrated efforts to rid the country of anyone on the left. Starting one will probably result in the leaders being arrested for using the wrong word at some point.
Well, what a depressing state of affairs. I see it's the usual suspects running things (not), the SWP and its splinters, I didn't even know about the conference. Would I have gone? I doubt it. I attended the founding conference of RESPECT, all those years ago and what did I find? I found the SWP (again) lording it over things and cooking the agenda. I left in disgust. Yes, capitalism is in crisis, that's why it's turning to Fascism (again) but this time around it has no opposition at all! So we're even worse off now than my folks were in the 1930s! My dad and his brothers fought the Fascists in Cable Street, took part in the national unemployed movement, fought Franco in Spain but this time....
There's an unspoken alternative which is for the left to take over an existing political party via mass membership, supporting each other to take office especially in the relevant governing bodies, and promote anti-capitalist policies. Does anyone have the guts and the will to do it? NB This is an idea, and critical analysis is welcome, abuse and negativity is not.
The problem with that is those who are in the existing hierarchy of the targeted party are then incentivized to build procedural and financial defenses against such a "takeover". And they'd be right to.
More importantly, though, it would inevitably mean a drawn-out battle to accomplish; involving possibly years of delay when the left cannot afford to waste, in time or energy.
I agree totally Shaggy.
Could you give an example of where this tactic/approach has worked Gareth?
Take over? Isn’t that an ancient Trotskyist tactic called entryism. You join an existing party and take it over by getting into positions of power and changing the party's programme. It didn't work then and it won't work now.
Worth a try
What the hell is Greta Thunberg doing here? A creature of the corporates, supporter of Zionist genocide! You ask why the situation is dire? Well including Thunberg says it all!
Alan: Corbynism in practice.
https://warwickpowell.substack.com/p/chinas-economic-model-revisited
Quite heartbreaking, to think what we missed out on.
China is the world's most successful capitalist economy. It has noting to do with Corbynism or socialism.
Perhaps you should read the article before making that judgement; and also peruse Corbyn's manifesto.
There are many varieties of 'capitalist' systems, just as there are of 'socialist' systems, and sometimes they are not very far apart, and sometimes they mingle.
Both the US, UK & China can all be called "Capitalist economies"; but one of them has decreased poverty sharply, while growing rapidly, and the other two have increased poverty sharply. Perhaps the wise might look at the different strategies employed.
Read the article and familiar with Corbyn's manifesto having been Chair of Bristol Labour during the election campaign. China has massively increased inequality since the 1980s. Recently reduced it slightly but still more unequal than the UK and most European countries which haven't become more unequal over the same period. China isn't as shit as the US but that really is a very low bar. If you must big up China (why?) it helps not to talk bollocks.
Yes but that's China, we're here in the UK, or hadn't you noticed? And even China has had to compromise just to survive the Empire's onslaught. And frankly, we had a kind of China here, following WWII and the welfare state, nationalised industries, the NHS. It lasted 30 years before the Barons decided to take back what belonged to them for centuries and Labour helped them repossess it all.
Economics doesn't work differently in different regions. There is a good reason Corbyn and McDonald got a standing ovation at the CBI. Sadly, that was forgotten by election time. Bet there's a lot of BloJo voting industrialists who feel like complete mugs now.
Labour helped, but Thatcher started that ball rolling.